Toyota Gas Pedals

[Gary Tayman]

Just curious as to what others think about this.

You've heard in the news all about Toyota and their sticking gas pedals.

What's really curious is that the news media, AND the government, have gone wild over this -- and it's NOT an American car!

Sure, some are assembled here, but it's a Japanese car company. Generally these are left alone while the news tries its best to slam American makes at every chance.

Of course there are two vendors who make the pedals. One is foreign, one is American. CTS, the American company, is the one that's getting the attention. But still, Toyota is getting the brunt of this. Also, we're starting to hear about bad brakes on the Prius.

An interesting tidbit: CTS is best known for making volume controls and tone controls for radios. If you have a radio, record player, car radio, stereo, TV, or other electronic device made anytime from the 1930's on up through the 70's, there's about a 90% chance that the volume, tone, balance, and other controls were made by CTS. They made billions of 'em.

[52buickman]

The braking system on the new Prius is not the system you are used to feeling under your foot. In simplistic terms, its a brake-by-wire system...much like the new(ish) drive-by-wire system found on most cars (in fact, drive-by-wire is now also employed by NASCAR teams). It's easier to produce, less complicated, and lightens the cars, thus saving an extra gallon or two over a moderate driving distance. Being that it's a gas/electric hybrid, the way I am lead to believe in how this braking system works is that light to moderate pressure on the brake pedal activates an electronic switch that decelerates the engine in a manner which will generate more energy to be stored in the battery (yet different than a semi's Jake-brake system). Heavy pedal pressure activates the system in a conventional means (in other words, the brake shoes/pads do the heavy work). The end result is what feels like a soft pedal for people used to the old system under light to moderate driving conditions. As of yesterday, there have only been roughly 100 complaints formally registered....which is sure to climb due to some sort of nominal "me too" factor.

As far as their other issues, most of the Toyota cars affected by the recall are actually made stateside. It's big news because - for the most part - Toyota (and others like Nissan and Honda) very rarely have a major issue, never mind the fact that they surpassed GM as the #1 automaker.

[Gary Tayman]

I know very little about the mechanics of the Prius, but I'd be quite surprised if this did not include some sort of dynamic braking. Dynamic brakes have been used on train locomotives since the 1940's, and basically works by putting an extreme electrical load on the system. Remember, a diesel-electric angine operates by utilizing a diesel motor to drive a generator, which provides power to drive electric motors on the wheels. The dynamic brakes are essentially huge fans/turbines on top which eat up power, thus creating a drag; their purpose is to lessen the load of an entire train's inertia on the mechanical brakes. The Prius operates in much the same way, with the addition of batteries for increased storage. I would assume that the dynamic braking would in some way utilize the electric motors to become generators, charging the batteries back up. This "puts back" energy instead of "wasting" it in mechanical friction/heat. This is the only reason I can think of for using them in a car -- after all, automobile brakes have been sufficiently stopping millions of cars for 100 years or so without problems -- why else would they introduce the dynamic factor?

As I understand it, Japanese automakers have typically had more recalls than American, but the reason is that their "threshold" for doing this is lower. The same problem that might cause an American carmaker to ignore because it's not that big a problem, might trigger a recall on a Japanese car. Methinks the news media is suddenly finding every possible flaw they can find on Toyotas, for sensation reasons.

Much as I root for American cars over foreign, the fact remains that the Prius is a milestone vehicle that treads new ground. You can expect it to have a bug or two. Unless it truly has a serious problem with safety, the Government should stay out of it and let Toyota deal with it in their own way.

[52buickman]

My friend confirmed for me what you stated: dynamic braking.

Incidentally, there is nothing really groundbreaking about the Prius (or Honda equivalent) when it's boiled down to basic form. Several US manufacturers (or at least one - a little digging and I can find out specifically who) were toying with a very basic form of the hybrid system back in the early Teens. Leave it to Toyota/Honda to "introduce" us to the improved upon version.

[Gary Tayman]

My friend confirmed for me what you stated: dynamic braking.

Incidentally, there is nothing really groundbreaking about the Prius (or Honda equivalent) when it's boiled down to basic form. Several US manufacturers (or at least one - a little digging and I can find out specifically who) were toying with a very basic form of the hybrid system back in the early Teens. Leave it to Toyota/Honda to "introduce" us to the improved upon version.

When I call it a milestone, I mean just that. It's the first car of its type to be mass-produced, and sell in big numbers. Sure the technology has indeed been around for awhile, and there have been other attempts at building/selling similar models. But this is the first "consumer model" of "any consequence."

Using the same logic, you could say that television has been around since 1927, but it wasn't till the late 1940's that you saw them in homes, and the mid-1950's that they were considered popular.

[52buickman]

Very true!

[Gary Tayman]

Now we're hearing that Lexus models are also having brake problems.

All these problems reported in a couple weeks' time? What a coincidence!

[FW1]

The braking system on the new Prius is not the system you are used to feeling under your foot. In simplistic terms, its a brake-by-wire system...much like the new(ish) drive-by-wire system found on most cars (in fact, drive-by-wire is now also employed by NASCAR teams). It's easier to produce, less complicated, and lightens the cars, thus saving an extra gallon or two over a moderate driving distance. Being that it's a gas/electric hybrid, the way I am lead to believe in how this braking system works is that light to moderate pressure on the brake pedal activates an electronic switch that decelerates the engine in a manner which will generate more energy to be stored in the battery (yet different than a semi's Jake-brake system). Heavy pedal pressure activates the system in a conventional means (in other words, the brake shoes/pads do the heavy work). The end result is what feels like a soft pedal for people used to the old system under light to moderate driving conditions. As of yesterday, there have only been roughly 100 complaints formally registered....which is sure to climb due to some sort of nominal "me too" factor.

As far as their other issues, most of the Toyota cars affected by the recall are actually made stateside. It's big news because - for the most part - Toyota (and others like Nissan and Honda) very rarely have a major issue, never mind the fact that they surpassed GM as the #1 automaker.

NASCAR does Not use drive-by-wire.............Its a mechanical rod (not a cable) and the drivers have the ability to lift the throttle in case of a throttle stick. Foot fits inside a pocket on the pedal.