Chevy Manifold Gasket

[Gary Tayman]

Not exactly an antique, though on its way I suppose.

2000 Monte Carlo SS. Wife's car. She drove home from work last week, noticed the "low coolant" light came on. I put some anti-freeze and water in it, is fine.

Had a mechanic look it over, manifold gasket is just starting to leak. Apparently this is a common problem with these Chevy 3800 engines. His recommendation is to not worry about it -- much, that it's just starting, and it may go awhile before causing a problem. Just keep an eye on it.

On the way home the thought came to me -- would Stop-Leak or anything similar help? I know some Cadillacs actually REQUIRE a variation of this, in the form of pellets. Naturally I WILL watch it; car only goes around town, and I can check oil and water routinely. But would an additive like this hold the leak in check or even cure it for awhile? I'm open to suggestions.

[52buickman]

Gary,
The 3800 is a great engine, except for the intake manifold. At some point in time, GM switched to an aluminum unit from plastic (in simplistic terms) in the final years of the 3800. I've seen this problem a dozen times or so. Couple issues happening all at once, and it may start with the coolant - or so the rumors went. Those in the know call it Dex-clog - last I knew, there was even a lawsuit going on with regards to it. I believe (99.9%) it's the red stuff GM supplies.

The problem is with the intake itself. What the dealer/mechanic is not telling you is that if there is visible leakage from the gasket, there's a good chance that the manifold has begun to warp (a very common problem), and that means that there is a good chance that there is a possibility of coolant mixing with fuel...that warp damage tends to happen earlier than gasket failure, but not always. Have you noticed a drop in performance? Replacing the gasket will not solve the issue.

If you indeed have a plastic intake, one of the easiest solutions is to find an aftermarket 3800 intake, which is also made of plastic. However, during the redesign of the aftermarket plastic intake - Dorman (sp?) was one of the first to produce a 3800 intake - these companies solved the issue with the GM design. I believe even GM recognized the problem and re-issued a new replacement manifold. It's not as expensive to replace as one would thing, even with an aftermarket intake. What we are not sure of is whether or not the newer aluminum intake is interchangeable. It's best to stick with an aftermarket or GM replacement in plastic. My friend did this with his '97 Olds Cutlass just a couple years ago...

If your intake is aluminum, chances are you just need a new gasket. Good luck - and let me know how you made out.

[HatchbackChevelle]

A friend of mine teacher auto repair at the local community college here is what he has to say,

Oooooooooo....I HATE stop leak, ESPECIALLY pellets! IF this is a "common" problem with those engines, I'd ask a dealer if there has been a recall or a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) issued.
The ONLY stop leak I like comes in a bottle about the size of an aspirin bottle, is clear on the top and gold towards the bottom, and when you shake it up it turns the color of copper. I think it's CRG or CRC, or something like that. I used it several years ago when we drove our Rodeo to Seattle. The engine kept overheating every 100 miles or so as I was leaking coolant around the intake manifold. I babied it all the way to Seattle, had an Isuzu dealer look at it and they claimed it to be the upper intake manifold gasket, 6 hours labor and $700. Well, I went to a Checker and the salesman told me to use this stuff. There has to be absolutely NO coolant in the engine when you put this stuff in. Well, after driving to Seattle, there was no coolant left, so I put it in, topped it off with water and drove all the way back here with NO PROBLEMS AT ALL! When I got home I refilled it with 50/50 coolant and water and drove it another 2 years with never adding any more coolant and it never overheated again.
So, there ya go....hope this helps

And here is a little more found info for you - The problem is the intake manifolds and gaskets. GM started making their intake manifolds out of a plastic material in order to save engine weight and thus save precious fuel. The problem is that the plastic cannot withstand the heat in that part of the engine and as a consequence the material fails, often with catastrophic results.
GM recognizes this is a problem but they are doing noting to help the people who own these vehicles. On May 26, 2004 GM released a Technical Bulletin (TSB) 04-06-01-017 regarding “New Upper Intake Manifold and Gasket Kits”. In it, it says, “In addition some of the gaskets have been updated to a more robust design”. Only “some of the gaskets”, why not “all”?
Then on January 18, 2006 GM issued another TSB concerning this problem. In it, it says,

Condition:
Some owners may comment on excessive engine coolant consumption, or an engine coolant leak near or under the throttle body area of the upper intake manifold.

Cause:
Upper intake manifold composite material may degrade around the EGR stove pipe and could result in an internal or external coolant leak.
Then it goes on to detail the repair procedure.

Now a TSB is not a recall in any way, nor is it a free repair for the owners. A TBS is for known problems and the procedures to repair that problem.
The cost of intake manifold and gasket related repairs can range from $800.00 of a simple intake manifold gasket replacement all the way to, over. $3,500.00 for a complete engine replacement.

General Motors is not inclined to recall these vehicles or even help their customers with the cost of repairs simply because of the vast scope of the problem. It involves millions of V-6 engines from 1995 to the present. The cost to GM to fix this problem would run into the billions. Something financially strapped General Motors simply cannot afford. A class action lawsuit has been filed against General Motors on behalf of GM vehicle owners to recover the cost of repairs to their vehicles.

[Gary Tayman]

To be honest I never got that far, at least to the point of doing anything. Anti-freeze is leaking into the oil faster than it first appeared, so I got the car home and here it sits for now.

Uh, sure, Chevy should've done a better job with it I suppose, but it's not the type of problem, for me at least, where I should make claims or blame GM for the problem. The car IS ten years old and has served us well, and is really only the second "problem" I've had with the car -- the first being the fuel pump. Yes it was also pricey, but two repair bills in ten years is nothing to complain about. Just came at a bad time. Don't know if I'll take it in now or wait a couple more weeks -- I suppose I'm "blessed" with having four cars for only two drivers, and have that option.

That's one thing some of us cruisers take for granted; the fact that we have a spare in the event that our daily workhorse breaks down.

The unusual situation on my part is that I'm not a mechanic by any stretch -- got the T-Bird originally as a tinker toy, but have no desire to tear into any car made less than 40 years ago. So I'm at a disadvantage when it comes to gearhead-talk at the cruises. Then again, I can specialize in the one part that nobody else knows anything about -- the radio, so I'm not hopeless . . .

[52buickman]

Gary,

To get ten years out of the intake is actually pretty good. This manifold issue has had a tendency to pop up earlier, depending upon the type of driving one does. And it's not just Chevy owners - anyone owning a GM car with the 3800 engine is susceptible to the manifold issue: Buick, Chevy, Olds and Pontiac (I'm not sure if Cadillac used the engine or not).

Hatchback: Agree with your assessment of the stop leak issue as well. It's probably best to fix it right once. I also agree that a recall on the manifold would be catastrophic for GM, even in its fiscally "healthy" years (that must have been the Sixties! - sorry, could not help it), as that engine ended up in more models than one could imagine. I think billions would be a fair assessment, if not reserved.

Gary: As stated, a fresh aftermarket replacement - or updated "replacement" from GM (seriously question the GM source if you go that route) - should mean that the engine would outlast the sheet metal surrounding it. No, seriously...you could easily rack up the mileage with nothing more than regular maintenance.

Buickman

[Gary Tayman]

Okay, NEW problem.

I finally decided on where to take the car for service -- the Chevy dealer. Yes, it's manifold gasket. Yes, their price actually came BELOW what others have estimated it would be for this job. Picked it up today, ready to go . . .

. . . Almost.

Along with this, there is a small leak around the power steering hose. This same Chevy dealer wants $350 to change the hose -- huh? Why? I said no for now.

So I picked up the car and basically parked it in the lot about 50 feet away. Wife helped me pick it up tonight. When I parked the car, I noticed a little bit of grinding in the steering. So when we returned, I brought some fluid along to top it off.

WE SPENT OVER A HALF HOUR TRYING TO FIND THE POWER STEERING RESERVOIR! Never found it. The book says "The filler is toward the rear of the engine compartment, on the passenger side." Really? Can't find it! The only fillers of any kind are the radiator coolant and the windshield washer fluid. I would certainly think the reservoir must be near the pump, and since the fan belt is over there the pump must be down there somewhere, but we never did find it -- even after moving the car under a street lamp.


Okay, I give up. Where in the Sam Hill is the power steering reservoir????

I hate newer cars . . . nothing makes sense anymore.

[HatchbackChevelle]

Hey Gary give this a try. I have alway thought motors should not go in cars sideways.
It is located on the left (passenger) side of the engine, just below the alternator and close to the firewall.
To access the power steering fluid reservoir, I would have to unbolt one side of my front the strut tower brace (STB) (two 14mm bolts) and the coolant overflow bottle (two 10mm bolts).
If you have small arms or don't mind getting your arm covered in grease, it is possible to get to the power steering fluid reservoir without removing anything. I found that it was much easier to access the power steering reservoir by removing the bolts on the left side of the STB (strut tower brace) and the coolant overflow bottle. Then there's more than enough room to reach your arm down in the space between the alternator and the wall of the passenger side strut tower.

The best way to add fluid to the power steering reservoir is by using a funnel with a short length of hose or tubing attached. You can either buy an automotive funnel at any auto parts store that already has some tubing attached, or make your own

Place the plastic tube in between the two large black hoses just behind the alternator and threaded it down into the power steering reservoir. Then pour in a few ounces of power steering fluid at a time and repeatedly checked the level using the dipstick to avoid overfilling the reservoir. Overfilling the reservoir can lead to power steering pump damage.

Good Luck.

[Gary Tayman]

I found the thing. Whatta mess! Yes, I'll have to buy or fabricate some special funnel to allow me to fill the **&@^& thing.

Unbelieveable!

[HatchbackChevelle]

Congrats Gary, everything is easier on the assembly line. Not for the mechanic.
Make your own. I chose a small white plastic kitchen funnel and used tape to secure a small piece of clear plastic tubing that I had laying in my scrap materials box.